blauth
Race Dog
Updated: 28/10/2010 by blauth
I am pleased to say that this entire mess has been resolved. Hannes has fixed the engine properly and it is running really well, smoke free. Hannes stripped the entire engine and did additional work over and above the original job.
The total rebuild cost came to roughly 14k leaving a 5k deficit on what I had already paid. Hannes was adament that the 5k I could pay at my own discression, all he was interested in was that it was fixed properly now. I have agreed to pay the 5k balance over a month or two.
I have since put over a 1000km on the bike and here are a few pics from the ride to the waterberg:
I had the KTM's a little worried. This bike performs on par with the KTM's. Suspension maybe not as good but the rims are solid, no headshake, performance maybe 5% down if that, possibly even better bottom end torque and a real comfy seat.
I needs some advice on how I should approach this.
I sent my 1991 Honda Dominator to XXXXXXX bike shop to get fixed. The primary reason is because it had what seemed like a noisy tappet which I couldn’t get right. At the time, the bike smoked when cold and didn’t when hot. Well, long story short (long version below. I think this is an accurate account of story), I have spent R8700.00 with this guy, the bike was not right from the minute I started it for the first time and I informed XXXXX of this immediately and now it's smoking worse than ever and using a lot of oil. They have however fixed the tappet noise.
In short, the guy has told me to sod off. I think the SMS correspondence below will give you chaps a feel on where I am at with this.
I want to invite the bike shop owner onto this forum to defent himself before I disclose his details.
SMS History (earlier sms’s deleted):
SMS: Barry to XXXXX, 2010/07/10, 16:41:59
Hi. I have done 170km now and smoking worse than ever. Stopped at garage and had to put 2 pints of oil in. Bike is running terribly. Sorry to say XXXXX, this engine is broken. Barry
SMS: XXXXX to Barry, 2010/07/10, 18:03:33
Take it to Conrad. I did what I could. I told you I don't work on old bikes,this is the reason. It keeps on braking like an old car. And it just chows money. Its starting to cost me now as well. Sorry
SMS: Barry to XXXXX, 2010/07/10, 19:26:24
No XXXXX. I paid you almost 9k to fix this bike and i dont think its unreasonable to expect it to get fixed, old or not. I didnt twist your arm to fix it. I expect you to take a professional approach and resolve the problem. I will call you on Monday to discuss in person.
SMS: XXXXX to Barry, 2010/07/10, 22:59:06
Nobody tells me what to do! I told you that I do not guarantee piston and rings when a customer runs the bike in. Everytime you want to tell me what to do and what you read on internet. You put 2 stroke oil in a bike that runs in. You bore the bike maximum and I told you its going to cost a resleeve if there is new damage. Above all you phone me on weekends and after hours, if yuo are so clever why don't you fix it yourself. I don't work for you and I wil NOT cross another boundry to work on a old bike. I can't understand how you can ride an old 85 model bike but have the money for a new trans-alp? I will not waste another minute on that old bike. Don't waste you're time phoning or comming to my shop. The awnswer is NO and right of admission is reserved!!!!
Long Verison:
- I took the Dominator in for XXXXXX (from XXXXXX) to look at and listen to. XXXXXX said to me that he doesn’t like working on old bikes but he accepted my job anyway. He mentioned to me that he has fixed hundreds of XR’s (same engine in Dominator) and he appeared to be very proud of it so I pretty much assumed he would know what he is talking about. He would send me a quotation shortly.
- XXXXXX sent me the final Quote/Jobcard (Cost of repairs) on 04/06/2010. I mumbled about the price a little and we resolved that if I take the engine out of the bike and take him the engine, it would save me some money.
- Just after XXXXXX started working on the motor, I phoned him and asked him about a warranty. He said that manufacturers don’t give warranties on dirt bikes when new and he wouldn’t give me a warranty on the Piston and Rings. He also explained that it was very easy to cause damage when running in and that he had had many comebacks after he did engine rebuilds due to smoking (I should have asked how those got resolved).
- XXXXXX phoned to tell me that he wanted to put in a Pro-X piston into the bike. I said to him I didn’t want a Pro-X because it was pretty much the OEM equivalent and I would rather go for the top piston and ring manufacturer brand (Wiseco) because they are known for quality products. Wiseco only had the maximum oversized piston in stock and XXXXXX said that if there were issues with the piston and rings after the rebuild, the bike would have to be re-sleeved. I said to him that we would then just have to be very careful. I also said to XXXXXX that I think I should put in a little two stroke oil into the petrol mix to facilitate lubrication in the run in phase, thinking that this couldn’t do harm and would only ease in reducing friction and thus heat which is the main reason why new engines need to be run in gently.
- I paid for the engine rebuild (Just over R7000.00) and collected the engine. I then fitted the engine and immediately when I started the bike, it was smoking. I phoned XXXXXX immediately and told him and he said the rings just needed to seat themselves. I should run it for 100km or so and see how things go.
- I ran it in for the first 50km keeping the revs under 3500rpm as we had discussed and riding in a start – stop manner as we had discussed. It was then still smoking with no improvement (in fact it was worse). I called XXXXXX again and he suggested I take the fuel out (that had two stroke oil in it) and replace with fresh fuel. I did so and did another 40km but still no improvement.
- I then dropped the bike (whole bike) off with XXXXXX to sort the problem out. XXXXXX stripped the head off the bike and told me that it was a seal that he hadn’t replaced in the cylinder head (under the valve guides). When I questioned him about why he had not done this the first time because the seals are very cheap (R7.82 each x 4 from Honda. For interest sake, new valve guides are R152 and new valve stem seals are R95 each) and it should be a standard thing to do when a head is being rebuilt, he said that he had only seen three bikes with this problem and he was adamant that this was the problem with my bike. I also asked him if he had maybe broken a piston ring when he put the new piston in and he said he was sure he had not and that the sleeve looked fantastic. He didn’t want to remove the barrel to check because it would unseat the rings (if they were not broken). He charged me another R1700.00 saying that I was paying for the parts and engineering costs and he would cover the labour. Parts: New gaskets, Oil, Cost of engineer and new genuine Honda valve stem seals (from some Honda motorcar which he claims are the same as the bikes – perhaps therein lies the problem).
- When I went to collect the bike on Friday afternoon at about 16:30, they were still busy assembling the bike. I waited 2.5 hours for them to finish so I could take the bike home but when he started the bike, it was smoking. XXXXXX said it was oil in the exhausts burning off. He said he would prefer if I left it with him to ride in further and the smoking should stop after riding it a bit. XXXXXX put another 80 odd km on the bike and said I could come collect. He mentioned that he did 40km at about 120km/h and he couldn’t see any smoke.
- I collected the bike late afternoon. I checked the oil the next morning before taking it to work and it didn’t even reflect on the dip stick so I put about 500ml in. After I rode the bike to work the next day. I phoned him when I got to work saying that the bike was still smoking a LOT.
- He said I should do more mileage and try burn the oil out of the exhaust. At this point I don’t believe it’s oil in the exhaust and agree to ride it for a few hundred km to make sure. I said to XXXXXX that I would take the bike to Conrad Coen (another well known mechanic on this forum) for a second opinion. After 170km more, I checked the oil at a garage and I had to put a litre of oil in the bike. The rest of the story can be deduced from the SMS’s above.
I am pleased to say that this entire mess has been resolved. Hannes has fixed the engine properly and it is running really well, smoke free. Hannes stripped the entire engine and did additional work over and above the original job.
The total rebuild cost came to roughly 14k leaving a 5k deficit on what I had already paid. Hannes was adament that the 5k I could pay at my own discression, all he was interested in was that it was fixed properly now. I have agreed to pay the 5k balance over a month or two.
I have since put over a 1000km on the bike and here are a few pics from the ride to the waterberg:
I had the KTM's a little worried. This bike performs on par with the KTM's. Suspension maybe not as good but the rims are solid, no headshake, performance maybe 5% down if that, possibly even better bottom end torque and a real comfy seat.
I sent my 1991 Honda Dominator to XXXXXXX bike shop to get fixed. The primary reason is because it had what seemed like a noisy tappet which I couldn’t get right. At the time, the bike smoked when cold and didn’t when hot. Well, long story short (long version below. I think this is an accurate account of story), I have spent R8700.00 with this guy, the bike was not right from the minute I started it for the first time and I informed XXXXX of this immediately and now it's smoking worse than ever and using a lot of oil. They have however fixed the tappet noise.
In short, the guy has told me to sod off. I think the SMS correspondence below will give you chaps a feel on where I am at with this.
I want to invite the bike shop owner onto this forum to defent himself before I disclose his details.
SMS History (earlier sms’s deleted):
SMS: Barry to XXXXX, 2010/07/10, 16:41:59
Hi. I have done 170km now and smoking worse than ever. Stopped at garage and had to put 2 pints of oil in. Bike is running terribly. Sorry to say XXXXX, this engine is broken. Barry
SMS: XXXXX to Barry, 2010/07/10, 18:03:33
Take it to Conrad. I did what I could. I told you I don't work on old bikes,this is the reason. It keeps on braking like an old car. And it just chows money. Its starting to cost me now as well. Sorry
SMS: Barry to XXXXX, 2010/07/10, 19:26:24
No XXXXX. I paid you almost 9k to fix this bike and i dont think its unreasonable to expect it to get fixed, old or not. I didnt twist your arm to fix it. I expect you to take a professional approach and resolve the problem. I will call you on Monday to discuss in person.
SMS: XXXXX to Barry, 2010/07/10, 22:59:06
Nobody tells me what to do! I told you that I do not guarantee piston and rings when a customer runs the bike in. Everytime you want to tell me what to do and what you read on internet. You put 2 stroke oil in a bike that runs in. You bore the bike maximum and I told you its going to cost a resleeve if there is new damage. Above all you phone me on weekends and after hours, if yuo are so clever why don't you fix it yourself. I don't work for you and I wil NOT cross another boundry to work on a old bike. I can't understand how you can ride an old 85 model bike but have the money for a new trans-alp? I will not waste another minute on that old bike. Don't waste you're time phoning or comming to my shop. The awnswer is NO and right of admission is reserved!!!!
Long Verison:
- I took the Dominator in for XXXXXX (from XXXXXX) to look at and listen to. XXXXXX said to me that he doesn’t like working on old bikes but he accepted my job anyway. He mentioned to me that he has fixed hundreds of XR’s (same engine in Dominator) and he appeared to be very proud of it so I pretty much assumed he would know what he is talking about. He would send me a quotation shortly.
- XXXXXX sent me the final Quote/Jobcard (Cost of repairs) on 04/06/2010. I mumbled about the price a little and we resolved that if I take the engine out of the bike and take him the engine, it would save me some money.
- Just after XXXXXX started working on the motor, I phoned him and asked him about a warranty. He said that manufacturers don’t give warranties on dirt bikes when new and he wouldn’t give me a warranty on the Piston and Rings. He also explained that it was very easy to cause damage when running in and that he had had many comebacks after he did engine rebuilds due to smoking (I should have asked how those got resolved).
- XXXXXX phoned to tell me that he wanted to put in a Pro-X piston into the bike. I said to him I didn’t want a Pro-X because it was pretty much the OEM equivalent and I would rather go for the top piston and ring manufacturer brand (Wiseco) because they are known for quality products. Wiseco only had the maximum oversized piston in stock and XXXXXX said that if there were issues with the piston and rings after the rebuild, the bike would have to be re-sleeved. I said to him that we would then just have to be very careful. I also said to XXXXXX that I think I should put in a little two stroke oil into the petrol mix to facilitate lubrication in the run in phase, thinking that this couldn’t do harm and would only ease in reducing friction and thus heat which is the main reason why new engines need to be run in gently.
- I paid for the engine rebuild (Just over R7000.00) and collected the engine. I then fitted the engine and immediately when I started the bike, it was smoking. I phoned XXXXXX immediately and told him and he said the rings just needed to seat themselves. I should run it for 100km or so and see how things go.
- I ran it in for the first 50km keeping the revs under 3500rpm as we had discussed and riding in a start – stop manner as we had discussed. It was then still smoking with no improvement (in fact it was worse). I called XXXXXX again and he suggested I take the fuel out (that had two stroke oil in it) and replace with fresh fuel. I did so and did another 40km but still no improvement.
- I then dropped the bike (whole bike) off with XXXXXX to sort the problem out. XXXXXX stripped the head off the bike and told me that it was a seal that he hadn’t replaced in the cylinder head (under the valve guides). When I questioned him about why he had not done this the first time because the seals are very cheap (R7.82 each x 4 from Honda. For interest sake, new valve guides are R152 and new valve stem seals are R95 each) and it should be a standard thing to do when a head is being rebuilt, he said that he had only seen three bikes with this problem and he was adamant that this was the problem with my bike. I also asked him if he had maybe broken a piston ring when he put the new piston in and he said he was sure he had not and that the sleeve looked fantastic. He didn’t want to remove the barrel to check because it would unseat the rings (if they were not broken). He charged me another R1700.00 saying that I was paying for the parts and engineering costs and he would cover the labour. Parts: New gaskets, Oil, Cost of engineer and new genuine Honda valve stem seals (from some Honda motorcar which he claims are the same as the bikes – perhaps therein lies the problem).
- When I went to collect the bike on Friday afternoon at about 16:30, they were still busy assembling the bike. I waited 2.5 hours for them to finish so I could take the bike home but when he started the bike, it was smoking. XXXXXX said it was oil in the exhausts burning off. He said he would prefer if I left it with him to ride in further and the smoking should stop after riding it a bit. XXXXXX put another 80 odd km on the bike and said I could come collect. He mentioned that he did 40km at about 120km/h and he couldn’t see any smoke.
- I collected the bike late afternoon. I checked the oil the next morning before taking it to work and it didn’t even reflect on the dip stick so I put about 500ml in. After I rode the bike to work the next day. I phoned him when I got to work saying that the bike was still smoking a LOT.
- He said I should do more mileage and try burn the oil out of the exhaust. At this point I don’t believe it’s oil in the exhaust and agree to ride it for a few hundred km to make sure. I said to XXXXXX that I would take the bike to Conrad Coen (another well known mechanic on this forum) for a second opinion. After 170km more, I checked the oil at a garage and I had to put a litre of oil in the bike. The rest of the story can be deduced from the SMS’s above.
