the3rdrock
Pack Dog
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2016
- Messages
- 155
- Reaction score
- 28
- Location
- Cape Town, South Africa
- Bike
- KTM 990 Adventure
Taking a few minutes to read the following may save your life.
In Q3 of 2021, having recently gotten into adventure motorcycling (MAY, 2021), I was interested in updating my motorcycle to make life on the trails a little easier.
As part of this exercise, I inquired with several channels regarding the options, pros & cons, process, suppliers and costs involved with converting my OEM wheels to tubeless.
The feedback was collectively positive, with numerous riders responding that it was a worthwhile exercise, and that there were several options for handling this type of conversion.
When I inquired after a supplier able to assist with this, the majority of respondents suggested a local (to Cape Town) supplier, operating under a trade name and supplying a product with a name closely aligned to that of an international tubeless conversion product aimed at what I now know to be the motocross world.
Initial dealings with the supplier in OCT, 2021 were friendly and promising.
A deal was struck to perform the conversion to my front and rear wheels. As part of this exercise my front rim, having suffered some 'smiley' dents from its former life was replaced with an aftermarket rim, recommended and supplied by the supplier in question. Lastly, new L-shaped valves were fitted, again supplied and fitted by the supplier.
The supplier visited my residence and removed the wheels in my presence, before taking them away for their much-anticipated new tubeless lives.
During the process, videos showing the damage the front rim and the newly converted rims were supplied to me.
Approximately two weeks later, a week overdue, with a fixed deadline the next day (adventure training course), the supplier returned, again fitting them in my presence.
Shortly thereafter I used the motorcycle to run some errands, racking up approximately 50km doing so. Approximately a km from home, exiting a freeway and obviously slowing down, the front became unstable. I managed to slow the bike without incident, discovering, once stopped, that my front wheel was flat.
I pushed the motorcycle home and immediately called the supplier, going over the course of events, and naturally stating my concern. My phone's call log still shows all calls to the number.
The supplier exclaimed surprise, stating that he was on the other side of town and unable to return at that time. I was instructed to reinflate the tyre, check the pressure and report back, which I did. A request to perform a short test ride was also actioned. I undertook a slow test ride of approximately 10km, including a short stint on a sandy section.
The pressures were checked six times between reinflation and that evening, each time approximately an hour apart. There was no perceptible difference at any point.
A follow-up call with the supplier, noting the pressure checks, resulted in the proviso that the motorcycle was believed safe to use the next day and that the supplier would be on standby to collect me should anything go wrong.
The next morning my pillion and I headed out, followed by a friend. Having completed 50km along the N1 with no discernible issue, the front suffered instantaneous deflation at approximately 120km/h just past the Okavango Rd. flyover in the right lane.
With little control the bike veered left, thankfully clear of traffic. An attempt was made to right the bike, which helped momentarily. Now traveling at an angle to the island separating the onramp and the freeway, there was no sense of control whatsoever.
I have no recollection after this moment. The details are courtesy of the following rider and what we have been able to piece together subsequently.
The motorcycle hit the kerb, sending us flying some way until the motorcycle and us slid down a length of the onramp, ended up on the verge some way down. I came to shortly after coming to a stop, and promptly dragged myself over to my injured girlfriend.
We were very fortunate to have been sent flying when we hit the kerb, avoiding vehicles, barriers, and the like.
We were even more fortunate to enjoy rapid assistance thanks to a passing convoy of volunteer medics. All this whilst we were still trying to reach emergency services on the phone.
The supplier phoned me whilst I waited for word on my girlfriend's condition, blissfully unaware of what had just transpired. Shock was exclaimed, but little more. That was the last time that I would hear from the supplier until over a year later. My phone and message records clearly reflect this.
The motorcycle was delivered to a recognized specialist, whereupon I had an independent autopsy conducted, painting a clear picture of what had gone wrong, namely the tubeless conversion. In essence, sustained travel at speed results in the tyre expanding slightly due to centrifugal force. A tubeless rim employs a ridge on either side of the tyre bead to hold the bead in place. By comparison, a tubed rim is smooth, relying on the tube for integrity. With no safety beads to support the enlarged tyre, the tyre beads are able to deform inwards resulting in instantaneous deflation without warning. Additionally, the new valve, fitted with the aid of the same compound to compensate for the curvature of the rim was also found to be leaking.
Over a year later my girlfriend still battles PTSD and no longer enjoys motorcycling, which has been a dramatic change of life for us, more so as we now outlay spend on taxis. We do not own a vehicle in Cape Town, for several reasons. It took me a year to regain a degree of confidence on motorcycles again. This after I very nearly gave them up forever following the crash. My right leg and buttock are permanently misshapen due to a prolonged slide down the road, taking a degree of flesh with it.
Whilst insurance paid out for the motorcycle, much of the ensuing medical costs, therapy costs, related administrative and logistical costs, endless hours trying to resolve the aftermath and the gear, all of which was wrecked performing its job, were not. This has been a substantial financial hit to us both.
It took very nearly a year to resolve all the administrative issues relating to the crash.
At this point I had compiled a detailed reconciliation, notes, and various other artefacts, highlighting the case.
At no point to date had I publicized the supplier's name or trade name.
In this time, I had come to learn much more about rims and tubeless conversions that I had imagined. Had I had this newfound knowledge earlier, I would never have elected to do the tubeless conversion.
Approximately a year after the incident, having consulted with several legal representatives, to be sure of my rights, a letter of demand was issued to the supplier, along with the reconciliation, requesting payment for the costs incurred to date. A response was requested within a set period.
Within a few days I received a call from the supplier, asking if we could meet to discuss the letter of demand. Against my better judgement, I consented, picking a date within the set period. My residence was the chosen location.
The supplier called on the day, stating that his brother has passed away, asking if we could reschedule to the next week, now outside of the response window. Given the justification, I agreed.
Then next week we met, in the street. My phone was set to record, and it did, from start to finish, clearly.
The conversation started with a thinly veiled threat (my opinion) with a smile, expressing to me that slating his name would not be a good move on my part.
At no point in the ensuing conversation, which lasted for over an hour, was the supplier treated with anything less than respect. The recording is testament to this fact.
During the conversation it was established that the supplier continues to offer these tubeless conversions, in spite of our tragic conclusion. There is no apparent remorse, and no apparent hesitation in continuing to put out a product that may kill someone one day. Reckless endangerment in the extreme.
When asked about the independent report, from a recognized expert, the findings were wholly objected to. In its place, a crude drawing was offered, with an explanation that leaves one cold. If an individual offering their services as a wheel expert stands resolute in their proclamation of how tubed and tubeless rims are no different and rather that taking a tyre off of a rim one too many times is the inevitable cause of such calamities, one has to doubt all their professional offerings.
I am not seeking the man's house or life savings. I am merely trying to balance the unjustified outlay, and in the process, prevent the next person from becoming a victim.
Several times I inquired as to what the supplier thought was a suitable resolution between us. No definitive answer was provided. When you're facing a person that trusted in your professional abilities, that suffered severe harm as a result of your product, and that has approached you with respect and good intentions to reach an amicable solution, and your response is to shirk all responsibility, essentially shrug your shoulders and to insinuate that the person is a liar and misinformed, there can be little doubt that the character you're dealing with is nefarious in the extreme.
The supplier asked whether he could inspect the rims. When I stated that the wheels had now been repaired, with new rims, and a reversion to tubes in the process, as part of the insurance process whilst I'd been recovering, the supplier remarked that there was no way for him to inspect the rims as the likely culprit. What I omitted to tell him was that he had in fact seen the rims, and for that matter the wheels, as he had performed the repair, being the chosen supplier for the insurance-approved workshop that subcontracted him to affect the wheel repairs. Who's the liar now?
Several times the supplier remarked that his memory was excellent, using this as a platform to attempt to confuse and debase my allegations regarding when he had contacted me, what he communicated to me and the like. My phone's logs and archive stand in stark contradiction to a number of these points. Additionally, for someone who vociferously proclaims their memory to be of the highest order, I entered the street at his telephonic notification of his arrival to find him at the wrong property address. Remember that he had visited my premises twice a year prior, to collect and then return the wheels.
This incident riled me up to such an extent that I found myself seeking medical attention for stress-induced ailments the next day, followed by several days' leave. Shall I notch those costs up to this thread too?
Ultimately, I was offered legal assistance. Although the costs borne to me to date are substantial, the costs of pursuing legal action are greater. This is an unfortunate travesty of justice. What's worse though is that this dangerous work continues unabated. Will someone have to lose their life before it is stopped?
Please, think carefully before converting your tubed wheels to tubeless. It's just not worth it.
I've subsequently found and attended a professional puncture workshop and am knowledgeable and comfortable with the process. In thousands of kms of adventure motorcycling, I have yet to need to fix a puncture, or replace a tube.
As previously stated, I've not mentioned the supplier's name to date. The unfortunately, crazy reality is that that would put me in the wrong. Please don't ask me. I have no interest in sharing his trade name or personal name.
I have shared this story in attempt to highlight my experience to date, to advocate caution when selecting a supplier for such critical work, and to express my grave concern regarding the subject of tubeless conversions to motorcycle rims not originally designed for the purpose by the manufacturer.
In Q3 of 2021, having recently gotten into adventure motorcycling (MAY, 2021), I was interested in updating my motorcycle to make life on the trails a little easier.
As part of this exercise, I inquired with several channels regarding the options, pros & cons, process, suppliers and costs involved with converting my OEM wheels to tubeless.
The feedback was collectively positive, with numerous riders responding that it was a worthwhile exercise, and that there were several options for handling this type of conversion.
When I inquired after a supplier able to assist with this, the majority of respondents suggested a local (to Cape Town) supplier, operating under a trade name and supplying a product with a name closely aligned to that of an international tubeless conversion product aimed at what I now know to be the motocross world.
Initial dealings with the supplier in OCT, 2021 were friendly and promising.
A deal was struck to perform the conversion to my front and rear wheels. As part of this exercise my front rim, having suffered some 'smiley' dents from its former life was replaced with an aftermarket rim, recommended and supplied by the supplier in question. Lastly, new L-shaped valves were fitted, again supplied and fitted by the supplier.
The supplier visited my residence and removed the wheels in my presence, before taking them away for their much-anticipated new tubeless lives.
During the process, videos showing the damage the front rim and the newly converted rims were supplied to me.
Approximately two weeks later, a week overdue, with a fixed deadline the next day (adventure training course), the supplier returned, again fitting them in my presence.
Shortly thereafter I used the motorcycle to run some errands, racking up approximately 50km doing so. Approximately a km from home, exiting a freeway and obviously slowing down, the front became unstable. I managed to slow the bike without incident, discovering, once stopped, that my front wheel was flat.
I pushed the motorcycle home and immediately called the supplier, going over the course of events, and naturally stating my concern. My phone's call log still shows all calls to the number.
The supplier exclaimed surprise, stating that he was on the other side of town and unable to return at that time. I was instructed to reinflate the tyre, check the pressure and report back, which I did. A request to perform a short test ride was also actioned. I undertook a slow test ride of approximately 10km, including a short stint on a sandy section.
The pressures were checked six times between reinflation and that evening, each time approximately an hour apart. There was no perceptible difference at any point.
A follow-up call with the supplier, noting the pressure checks, resulted in the proviso that the motorcycle was believed safe to use the next day and that the supplier would be on standby to collect me should anything go wrong.
The next morning my pillion and I headed out, followed by a friend. Having completed 50km along the N1 with no discernible issue, the front suffered instantaneous deflation at approximately 120km/h just past the Okavango Rd. flyover in the right lane.
With little control the bike veered left, thankfully clear of traffic. An attempt was made to right the bike, which helped momentarily. Now traveling at an angle to the island separating the onramp and the freeway, there was no sense of control whatsoever.
I have no recollection after this moment. The details are courtesy of the following rider and what we have been able to piece together subsequently.
The motorcycle hit the kerb, sending us flying some way until the motorcycle and us slid down a length of the onramp, ended up on the verge some way down. I came to shortly after coming to a stop, and promptly dragged myself over to my injured girlfriend.
We were very fortunate to have been sent flying when we hit the kerb, avoiding vehicles, barriers, and the like.
We were even more fortunate to enjoy rapid assistance thanks to a passing convoy of volunteer medics. All this whilst we were still trying to reach emergency services on the phone.
The supplier phoned me whilst I waited for word on my girlfriend's condition, blissfully unaware of what had just transpired. Shock was exclaimed, but little more. That was the last time that I would hear from the supplier until over a year later. My phone and message records clearly reflect this.
The motorcycle was delivered to a recognized specialist, whereupon I had an independent autopsy conducted, painting a clear picture of what had gone wrong, namely the tubeless conversion. In essence, sustained travel at speed results in the tyre expanding slightly due to centrifugal force. A tubeless rim employs a ridge on either side of the tyre bead to hold the bead in place. By comparison, a tubed rim is smooth, relying on the tube for integrity. With no safety beads to support the enlarged tyre, the tyre beads are able to deform inwards resulting in instantaneous deflation without warning. Additionally, the new valve, fitted with the aid of the same compound to compensate for the curvature of the rim was also found to be leaking.
Over a year later my girlfriend still battles PTSD and no longer enjoys motorcycling, which has been a dramatic change of life for us, more so as we now outlay spend on taxis. We do not own a vehicle in Cape Town, for several reasons. It took me a year to regain a degree of confidence on motorcycles again. This after I very nearly gave them up forever following the crash. My right leg and buttock are permanently misshapen due to a prolonged slide down the road, taking a degree of flesh with it.
Whilst insurance paid out for the motorcycle, much of the ensuing medical costs, therapy costs, related administrative and logistical costs, endless hours trying to resolve the aftermath and the gear, all of which was wrecked performing its job, were not. This has been a substantial financial hit to us both.
It took very nearly a year to resolve all the administrative issues relating to the crash.
At this point I had compiled a detailed reconciliation, notes, and various other artefacts, highlighting the case.
At no point to date had I publicized the supplier's name or trade name.
In this time, I had come to learn much more about rims and tubeless conversions that I had imagined. Had I had this newfound knowledge earlier, I would never have elected to do the tubeless conversion.
Approximately a year after the incident, having consulted with several legal representatives, to be sure of my rights, a letter of demand was issued to the supplier, along with the reconciliation, requesting payment for the costs incurred to date. A response was requested within a set period.
Within a few days I received a call from the supplier, asking if we could meet to discuss the letter of demand. Against my better judgement, I consented, picking a date within the set period. My residence was the chosen location.
The supplier called on the day, stating that his brother has passed away, asking if we could reschedule to the next week, now outside of the response window. Given the justification, I agreed.
Then next week we met, in the street. My phone was set to record, and it did, from start to finish, clearly.
The conversation started with a thinly veiled threat (my opinion) with a smile, expressing to me that slating his name would not be a good move on my part.
At no point in the ensuing conversation, which lasted for over an hour, was the supplier treated with anything less than respect. The recording is testament to this fact.
During the conversation it was established that the supplier continues to offer these tubeless conversions, in spite of our tragic conclusion. There is no apparent remorse, and no apparent hesitation in continuing to put out a product that may kill someone one day. Reckless endangerment in the extreme.
When asked about the independent report, from a recognized expert, the findings were wholly objected to. In its place, a crude drawing was offered, with an explanation that leaves one cold. If an individual offering their services as a wheel expert stands resolute in their proclamation of how tubed and tubeless rims are no different and rather that taking a tyre off of a rim one too many times is the inevitable cause of such calamities, one has to doubt all their professional offerings.
I am not seeking the man's house or life savings. I am merely trying to balance the unjustified outlay, and in the process, prevent the next person from becoming a victim.
Several times I inquired as to what the supplier thought was a suitable resolution between us. No definitive answer was provided. When you're facing a person that trusted in your professional abilities, that suffered severe harm as a result of your product, and that has approached you with respect and good intentions to reach an amicable solution, and your response is to shirk all responsibility, essentially shrug your shoulders and to insinuate that the person is a liar and misinformed, there can be little doubt that the character you're dealing with is nefarious in the extreme.
The supplier asked whether he could inspect the rims. When I stated that the wheels had now been repaired, with new rims, and a reversion to tubes in the process, as part of the insurance process whilst I'd been recovering, the supplier remarked that there was no way for him to inspect the rims as the likely culprit. What I omitted to tell him was that he had in fact seen the rims, and for that matter the wheels, as he had performed the repair, being the chosen supplier for the insurance-approved workshop that subcontracted him to affect the wheel repairs. Who's the liar now?
Several times the supplier remarked that his memory was excellent, using this as a platform to attempt to confuse and debase my allegations regarding when he had contacted me, what he communicated to me and the like. My phone's logs and archive stand in stark contradiction to a number of these points. Additionally, for someone who vociferously proclaims their memory to be of the highest order, I entered the street at his telephonic notification of his arrival to find him at the wrong property address. Remember that he had visited my premises twice a year prior, to collect and then return the wheels.
This incident riled me up to such an extent that I found myself seeking medical attention for stress-induced ailments the next day, followed by several days' leave. Shall I notch those costs up to this thread too?
Ultimately, I was offered legal assistance. Although the costs borne to me to date are substantial, the costs of pursuing legal action are greater. This is an unfortunate travesty of justice. What's worse though is that this dangerous work continues unabated. Will someone have to lose their life before it is stopped?
Please, think carefully before converting your tubed wheels to tubeless. It's just not worth it.
I've subsequently found and attended a professional puncture workshop and am knowledgeable and comfortable with the process. In thousands of kms of adventure motorcycling, I have yet to need to fix a puncture, or replace a tube.
As previously stated, I've not mentioned the supplier's name to date. The unfortunately, crazy reality is that that would put me in the wrong. Please don't ask me. I have no interest in sharing his trade name or personal name.
I have shared this story in attempt to highlight my experience to date, to advocate caution when selecting a supplier for such critical work, and to express my grave concern regarding the subject of tubeless conversions to motorcycle rims not originally designed for the purpose by the manufacturer.
