Muffin Man
Puppy
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2012
- Messages
- 15
- Reaction score
- 32
- Bike
- BMW R1200GS Adventure
My Kove 450 Rally February 2024
- Thread starter BuRP
- Start date
Muffin Man
Puppy
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2012
- Messages
- 15
- Reaction score
- 32
- Bike
- BMW R1200GS Adventure
Done 2,5k and really enjoy this bike. Just fitted a throttle tamer and will test it next weekend..
I've glossed over this thread again just now..... and there's a few things I reckon I should mention.
I did use it for the abovementioned rides but not for Wildwood's 'Wild' Kaokoland ride.
Gideon Joubert (he who will wheelie from Stellenbosch to Messina without even once putting the front wheel down) is the backup and/or sweeper of John's tours - so he was also present during the Transkei/Lesotho/Drakensberg trip. He knows Namibia like the back of his hand, and no he didn't warn me.... but just told me I better bring my 500 instead of the Kove to Namibia. You see, Gideon's never lied to me yet, and such casual friendly advice coming from him I'll take to heart!
Robbie's Pass - plus some runup bits to it included - turns out to be 300 territory rather, the "pass" itself simply a relentless rocky *******, and the combination of Kove with me on it would have suffered - the Kove some damage, and me/my fitness ditto, never mind my temper then (I get grumpy when I'm klaar).
Suffice to say I'm glad I took my 500 for that trip - Thank you Gideon!
During Hardy's May Kaokoland trip the Kove shone on almost all days, for it likes space, sand, speed, and rough bits are soaked up by its suspension in a way one must feel to really appreciate: magnificent!
The 'loop-day' from Marble Camp to Van Zyl's Restkamp, then down Van Zyl's Pass, the glorious open fast red sandy Marienfluss, then the now surprisingly rough Rooidrom Pass (I know it has a different name but forgot it) where 4x4 drivers have stacked truckloads of rocks there to make it driveable, and back to Marble Camp was a tiring one, I felt knacked.
The entire runup to VZ Restcamp is rocky, loose rocky, as due to past rains almost no soil is left inbetween the rocks/pebbles, making for slipsliding one's way all the way to VZ Pass itself. This wore me out, and I was running out of water there so was perhaps a bit dehydrated - but luckily Striggs gave me a bellyfull of water once down the pass, and this miraculously cured me - again my thanks pal!
I remember riding the Marienfluss fast, alone on that glorious red sandy plain (it's my fave in Nam I'll admit), and the whole experience of flowing riding combined with that superb suspension had me floating over all & sundry.... it's one of those moments one can't describe, again (I know) I'll use the word glorious - for the dyslexic that's '******* awesome'!
Once at Marble, after several cups of Oros first of course, I discovered that I was tired, more so than usual (I'd done this loop before).... and then I realized that this bike is heavier than a 300 or 500, and this must have made me work more: duh! Anyway, was a superb day, and a bitofa lesson to be learned this day that this ain't an enduro weapon per se, however it'll do it though.
During this trip I asked Hardy about Robbie's Pass, and got 'dis malligheid, you can't ride there' as reply. Oh well, that's clear enough then, 500 it'll be on John's tour!
Thank you also Hardy... and perhaps you should have mentioned "300"?
The CST tyres the bike comes with were an unknown quantity for me (quite like the entire bike yeah).
I've remarked earlier here that they were fine, however now, with the benefit of hindsight, I should rephrase that to 'great'!
They perform well on anything I've been through/in/over, and yes, that includes tarred roads too, Lesotho in the rain at night even - they're SO good that I've asked Offroad Cycles for an identical set to replace mine!
They've done over 5000km's and need replacing now.... but that's a LOT for me, never have done this much before with the tyres I use (on my 500's yeah), and with the sterling performance anywhere I'd like the same tyres again please!
Can't have them though, noone stocks, a pity.... and I can't find a Motoz Tractionator Desert HT for the rear either.
Sirk at Offroad Cycles yesterday gave me a set of CST 'Rally' tyres they'd ordered though, a goodlooking set of sturdy hard-compound rubber, and I'll fit these this week - with the same mousses , they feel fine still so I'll reuse them.
The fuel-gauge is **** or at least mine is, no other word for it.
When the 'Low Fuel' warning pops up on the dash there's anything from ~10 liters to almost 0 liters left - which is a bit of a too-big margin for my brain, call me dof.
Luckily the 'Average Fuel/100Km' indication on the dash is accurate, and so is the milegae kept.... so I've adopted to calculating what fuel I have, and this works well enough.
I get between 18.5/21.3 km/liter, call that 20 for longer trips if not hammering it all the time - that's good!
Next week I'll service the bike and will take the tanks off, and will flush them (I may have some Nambi sand in there as I lost two fuelcaps - MY stupidity yeah) but also will see what's going on iside wrt the fuel gauge's pickup.
The bike performs noticeably better at sea level, I've not mentione this - a CLEAR difference! Super-eager, quite a bit more oomph hence way more fun!
The last day of our trip, on the Transkei coast, Gideon wanted to ride my bike. It was a short onlygohome stretch - so he did whilst I drove his bakkie, over a lot longer road stretch. I found him behind a milkshake grinning from ear to ear, and rumour has it he was on the back wheel for most of the time
I did use it for the abovementioned rides but not for Wildwood's 'Wild' Kaokoland ride.
Gideon Joubert (he who will wheelie from Stellenbosch to Messina without even once putting the front wheel down) is the backup and/or sweeper of John's tours - so he was also present during the Transkei/Lesotho/Drakensberg trip. He knows Namibia like the back of his hand, and no he didn't warn me.... but just told me I better bring my 500 instead of the Kove to Namibia. You see, Gideon's never lied to me yet, and such casual friendly advice coming from him I'll take to heart!
Robbie's Pass - plus some runup bits to it included - turns out to be 300 territory rather, the "pass" itself simply a relentless rocky *******, and the combination of Kove with me on it would have suffered - the Kove some damage, and me/my fitness ditto, never mind my temper then (I get grumpy when I'm klaar).
Suffice to say I'm glad I took my 500 for that trip - Thank you Gideon!
During Hardy's May Kaokoland trip the Kove shone on almost all days, for it likes space, sand, speed, and rough bits are soaked up by its suspension in a way one must feel to really appreciate: magnificent!
The 'loop-day' from Marble Camp to Van Zyl's Restkamp, then down Van Zyl's Pass, the glorious open fast red sandy Marienfluss, then the now surprisingly rough Rooidrom Pass (I know it has a different name but forgot it) where 4x4 drivers have stacked truckloads of rocks there to make it driveable, and back to Marble Camp was a tiring one, I felt knacked.
The entire runup to VZ Restcamp is rocky, loose rocky, as due to past rains almost no soil is left inbetween the rocks/pebbles, making for slipsliding one's way all the way to VZ Pass itself. This wore me out, and I was running out of water there so was perhaps a bit dehydrated - but luckily Striggs gave me a bellyfull of water once down the pass, and this miraculously cured me - again my thanks pal!
I remember riding the Marienfluss fast, alone on that glorious red sandy plain (it's my fave in Nam I'll admit), and the whole experience of flowing riding combined with that superb suspension had me floating over all & sundry.... it's one of those moments one can't describe, again (I know) I'll use the word glorious - for the dyslexic that's '******* awesome'!
Once at Marble, after several cups of Oros first of course, I discovered that I was tired, more so than usual (I'd done this loop before).... and then I realized that this bike is heavier than a 300 or 500, and this must have made me work more: duh! Anyway, was a superb day, and a bitofa lesson to be learned this day that this ain't an enduro weapon per se, however it'll do it though.
During this trip I asked Hardy about Robbie's Pass, and got 'dis malligheid, you can't ride there' as reply. Oh well, that's clear enough then, 500 it'll be on John's tour!
Thank you also Hardy... and perhaps you should have mentioned "300"?
The CST tyres the bike comes with were an unknown quantity for me (quite like the entire bike yeah).
I've remarked earlier here that they were fine, however now, with the benefit of hindsight, I should rephrase that to 'great'!
They perform well on anything I've been through/in/over, and yes, that includes tarred roads too, Lesotho in the rain at night even - they're SO good that I've asked Offroad Cycles for an identical set to replace mine!
They've done over 5000km's and need replacing now.... but that's a LOT for me, never have done this much before with the tyres I use (on my 500's yeah), and with the sterling performance anywhere I'd like the same tyres again please!
Can't have them though, noone stocks, a pity.... and I can't find a Motoz Tractionator Desert HT for the rear either.
Sirk at Offroad Cycles yesterday gave me a set of CST 'Rally' tyres they'd ordered though, a goodlooking set of sturdy hard-compound rubber, and I'll fit these this week - with the same mousses , they feel fine still so I'll reuse them.
The fuel-gauge is **** or at least mine is, no other word for it.
When the 'Low Fuel' warning pops up on the dash there's anything from ~10 liters to almost 0 liters left - which is a bit of a too-big margin for my brain, call me dof.
Luckily the 'Average Fuel/100Km' indication on the dash is accurate, and so is the milegae kept.... so I've adopted to calculating what fuel I have, and this works well enough.
I get between 18.5/21.3 km/liter, call that 20 for longer trips if not hammering it all the time - that's good!
Next week I'll service the bike and will take the tanks off, and will flush them (I may have some Nambi sand in there as I lost two fuelcaps - MY stupidity yeah) but also will see what's going on iside wrt the fuel gauge's pickup.
The bike performs noticeably better at sea level, I've not mentione this - a CLEAR difference! Super-eager, quite a bit more oomph hence way more fun!
The last day of our trip, on the Transkei coast, Gideon wanted to ride my bike. It was a short onlygohome stretch - so he did whilst I drove his bakkie, over a lot longer road stretch. I found him behind a milkshake grinning from ear to ear, and rumour has it he was on the back wheel for most of the time
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Curious to hear how these bearings are holding up. We had numerous failures on ZZ bearings of C&U bearings fitted to new Actom motors recently.No.... but if you zoom in on the cush hub then "C&U" appears - which I just now Googled:
Are C&U bearings any good?
C&U Bearings are used by some of the world's leading manufacturers and service providers in a wide variety of applications. Every C&U Bearing is made to exacting standards to deliver the ultimate in the precision, performance, and quality.
As I've said earlier, I didn't find anything 'chinese' on this bike although quite a bit of the components are made there.
All RS bearings (Rubber Seal) so it's what you would expect in a bike's wheel
ZZ-bearings have metal non-contact seals (dual plates) - which if you ask me is an oxymoron as a non-contact seal MUST leak!
These bearings are often found on sliding-gate wheels.... and will fail, if not quite soon too.
Here ingress of water, with or course affiliated debris, will dissolve the grease inside and wash this out, in doing so grinding the innards.
This is the reason why I, when I bought mine, have knocked them out and replaced them with 2RS (dual rubber seal) bearings.... which hold up exceptionally well, I've not replaced mine since (which is 8 or more years ago).
Quite frankly I dunno why anyone would use ZZ bearings as 2RS are only marginally more costly.
Their use points to intermittent-use-only or cheap applications, and take heed when you find them.
The Kove's wheels use 2RS bearings (as they should) so I expect a normal lifespan out of them - but I will check next week, and will report here if anything is amiss
(For those not knowing it, both ZZ & 2RS bearings are supplied with socalled LifeTime Grease inside, this is never (it can not!) be renewed)
These bearings are often found on sliding-gate wheels.... and will fail, if not quite soon too.
Here ingress of water, with or course affiliated debris, will dissolve the grease inside and wash this out, in doing so grinding the innards.
This is the reason why I, when I bought mine, have knocked them out and replaced them with 2RS (dual rubber seal) bearings.... which hold up exceptionally well, I've not replaced mine since (which is 8 or more years ago).
Quite frankly I dunno why anyone would use ZZ bearings as 2RS are only marginally more costly.
Their use points to intermittent-use-only or cheap applications, and take heed when you find them.
The Kove's wheels use 2RS bearings (as they should) so I expect a normal lifespan out of them - but I will check next week, and will report here if anything is amiss
(For those not knowing it, both ZZ & 2RS bearings are supplied with socalled LifeTime Grease inside, this is never (it can not!) be renewed)
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In continuous applications (like motors) the grease inside will heat up hence becomes thinner, and may leak out.
Any air inside will expand also when heating up, and this will contribute to leakage if not 'breathing', and remember these seals do not really seal.
Also, ingress of debris (say dust of carbon brushes used) will negatively affect the lifetime of these bearings.
In your case @1985xr200 , I'd contact Actom and ask them for 2RS bearings to be used at their assembly. As said, the cost differential is only marginal.
Welsh
Grumpy Mutt
ZZ-bearings have metal non-contact seals (dual plates) - which if you ask me is an oxymoron as a non-contact seal MUST leak!
These bearings are often found on sliding-gate wheels.... and will fail, if not quite soon too.
Here ingress of water, with or course affiliated debris, will dissolve the grease inside and wash this out, in doing so grinding the innards.
This is the reason why I, when I bought mine, have knocked them out and replaced them with 2RS (dual rubber seal) bearings.... which hold up exceptionally well, I've not replaced mine since (which is 8 or more years ago).
Quite frankly I dunno why anyone would use ZZ bearings as 2RS are only marginally more costly.
Their use points to intermittent-use-only or cheap applications, and take heed when you find them.
The Kove's wheels use 2RS bearings (as they should) so I expect a normal lifespan out of them - but I will check next week, and will report here if anything is amiss
(For those not knowing it, both ZZ & 2RS bearings are supplied with socalled LifeTime Grease inside, this is never (it can not!) be renewed)
In an electric motor ZZ is ok, in the electric motor any .001% efficiency improvement will be taken.
Just to let all new prospective clients know that @Off Road Cycles carries a lot of these parts and accessories as well and it is available at their shop in PTA
Below is the modular type tail rack and pannier rack like the one I have fitted on my bike and it is nice and light
If you look at the pic of @Muffin Man bike further up you will see how lekker the luggage system works
The CST tyres the bike comes with have held up very well, but now they need need replacing.
Offroad Cycles had a set of CST rally tyres...
... and these look fine to me.
Instead of the 2 Ply (Tread & Sides) of the std tyres they both have 3 Ply reinforcements...
They're called ....
... and ....
... so, same EX02 name with the suffix R or F for Rear or Front.
Both are non directional so mounting is easy - just know their carcass is stiff.
The rear's mousse came out dripping wet still...
... good, and it looked not only good but had not a single blemish and was still hard, so I put it back in the new tyre.
I checked the 4 bearings (cushdrive remember) and all's honky dory, so I'll put this lot back and then will replace the front tyre tomorrow.
Offroad Cycles had a set of CST rally tyres...
... and these look fine to me.
Instead of the 2 Ply (Tread & Sides) of the std tyres they both have 3 Ply reinforcements...
They're called ....
... and ....
... so, same EX02 name with the suffix R or F for Rear or Front.
Both are non directional so mounting is easy - just know their carcass is stiff.
The rear's mousse came out dripping wet still...
... good, and it looked not only good but had not a single blemish and was still hard, so I put it back in the new tyre.
I checked the 4 bearings (cushdrive remember) and all's honky dory, so I'll put this lot back and then will replace the front tyre tomorrow.
Attachments
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Thanks @BuRP for your replies. The efficiency thing @Welsh mentions is the motor suppliers' reasoning for the use of ZZ as well as heat from the 2RS bearings. In practice though I, like @BuRP, toss the ZZ bearings pronto unless there is a really good reason not to.
I think the real reason behind the failures we had (8 identical motors all with bearings seized up within 3 months) was zero or insufficient grease from the factory. 2RS bearings with too little grease would not be much better but at least the grease would stay put and dirt can't get in. Anyway, I now buy ABB IP66 motors, they come standard with 2RS bearings and only cost a few bob more.
Glad to hear your C&U 2RS bearings are still good @BuRP .
Those Kove's look really nice. ENJOY! BRAAAP!
Welsh
Grumpy Mutt
Any reason you don't use WEG motors, they used to be quite "robust"?
wooly bugger
Bachelor Dog
- Joined
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- 13,463
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- 1,576
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- Johannesburg
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- Buell Ulysses XB12
They don't come more hardcore than @JonW routes. I think Bart has ridden with Jon in the past.Bart, it is all good and well talking this Chinese bike up, and showing tons of strip-down pictures, but go and RIDE it so we can see if it lasts.
Don't make it so pretty that you stow it in your lounge.
Go test it in the rocks and dongas.
Go with @Noneking and the psychopath riders.
You need to ask the agent as pics are from the demo
.... and have walked out of (a very rocky) one leaving my bike up for grabs, and had to abort another (grassy knolled) one up in Lesotho!
Jon's routes are awesome, let that be said, but also they can be tricky, super hard working or hot .... or all together.
Jon does 500 stuff, thus enduro, and as I have another new one to break-in the masochistic-me should ask him for a weekend or so, late November or December - @ianb , you're in for this?
However, enduro is not the Kove, so for such I'll choose the 500 or 300.
Jon has already offered he'll puzzle a route together which will be Kove-friendly rather than 300 stuff, but I'm afraid that if he'll do that he'll be bored, let it be known the man lives on adrenaline
@Welsh We did use WEG almost exclusively but our local prefered supplier (can also be read as biker buddy) went Actom but after those bearing failures I told him to keep then in future. The ABB motors were sealed much better compared to similarly priced IP66 motors. Will check out WEG again though.
Burp . I will be in New Zealand end of November to January. Also no riding before. Winding up the shop to retire.
I have watched many Kove reviews/youtubes, many.... of course before but also after I bought mine.
This review I just came across - and it's the best by a looooong shot!
He points out the real Pro's when compared to other bikes/brands, and when he makes comparisons to other bikes he also owns they ring very true!
For instance a 500 on the highway, or the weight when picking a bike up, the 'too-much' power of a KTM, the heaviness of a 'middleweight' bike, it goes on and on - and it's all very recognizable for me, it rings simply true!
I had an 890 Rally, which I sold due to its weight (I barely could pick it up), and I had a 701, which I recently sold because I'll not use it anymore now I have the Kove 450, and I have a new 500...
Go watch it, it's a normal dude knowing bikes!
This review I just came across - and it's the best by a looooong shot!
He points out the real Pro's when compared to other bikes/brands, and when he makes comparisons to other bikes he also owns they ring very true!
For instance a 500 on the highway, or the weight when picking a bike up, the 'too-much' power of a KTM, the heaviness of a 'middleweight' bike, it goes on and on - and it's all very recognizable for me, it rings simply true!
I had an 890 Rally, which I sold due to its weight (I barely could pick it up), and I had a 701, which I recently sold because I'll not use it anymore now I have the Kove 450, and I have a new 500...
Go watch it, it's a normal dude knowing bikes!
Yesterday the front tyre went on.
Its mousse came out pristine and very wet also...
.... with the only dry spot being the indentation where the tyre clamp was - no surprise as right there is the least of movement.
This indentation is normal, and I always try to put this spot exactly back at the tyre clamp again.
But, I first had to take care of a small ding in the rim...
... nothing too serious, and a bit of violence with some heat does the job well-enough.
By the time I put the mousse back that tyre clamp 'indentation' was completely gone, not even a trace left.... that surprised me a bit: this used mousse is in superb condition still, after 5000km's of good use, and it not only looks unblemished, new & wet but also recovers like a new one!
So IN with it, dunno where the old clamp position is but anywhere/anyhow will do!
The still-present (but now reduced) small ding in the rim let air out though when I pumped it up to....
- 'bead' the tyre on the rim, but also, and rather importantly
- shrink the mousse inside the tyre so it becomes a lesser volume i.e smaller, and this allows it to take the shape it wants to, without any kinks or twists or stretched bits, it will sit in its 'natural' shape, quite like it lies on that cardboard sheet above but now in the tyre!
Bouncing the wheel a few times on that spot cured the leak, and on the gauge I could see it reached almost 2 Bar inside (only for a short moment mind, all mousse-wheels leak air of course) which is fine - so repeated that a few times to make sure all inside was well.
On this bit, the rear wheel held the air for quite a while, in fact I had to loosen the valve's nut (under which a temporary rubber washer was mounted to seal it off) to bleed all the air out.
So, my Kove now has got new shoes, and I'm curious as to what they will do.
Oh, these tyres are the same the real Rally Kove comes with, the competition model, and rumour has it they shine in/over ****.
The OEM tyres did that already, but these look a bit more aggressive to me treadwise, so let's see
Its mousse came out pristine and very wet also...
.... with the only dry spot being the indentation where the tyre clamp was - no surprise as right there is the least of movement.
This indentation is normal, and I always try to put this spot exactly back at the tyre clamp again.
But, I first had to take care of a small ding in the rim...
... nothing too serious, and a bit of violence with some heat does the job well-enough.
By the time I put the mousse back that tyre clamp 'indentation' was completely gone, not even a trace left.... that surprised me a bit: this used mousse is in superb condition still, after 5000km's of good use, and it not only looks unblemished, new & wet but also recovers like a new one!
So IN with it, dunno where the old clamp position is but anywhere/anyhow will do!
The still-present (but now reduced) small ding in the rim let air out though when I pumped it up to....
- 'bead' the tyre on the rim, but also, and rather importantly
- shrink the mousse inside the tyre so it becomes a lesser volume i.e smaller, and this allows it to take the shape it wants to, without any kinks or twists or stretched bits, it will sit in its 'natural' shape, quite like it lies on that cardboard sheet above but now in the tyre!
Bouncing the wheel a few times on that spot cured the leak, and on the gauge I could see it reached almost 2 Bar inside (only for a short moment mind, all mousse-wheels leak air of course) which is fine - so repeated that a few times to make sure all inside was well.
On this bit, the rear wheel held the air for quite a while, in fact I had to loosen the valve's nut (under which a temporary rubber washer was mounted to seal it off) to bleed all the air out.
So, my Kove now has got new shoes, and I'm curious as to what they will do.
Oh, these tyres are the same the real Rally Kove comes with, the competition model, and rumour has it they shine in/over ****.
The OEM tyres did that already, but these look a bit more aggressive to me treadwise, so let's see
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